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Then, in the second half of the episode, Matt walks us through his roadmap for company founders, including the 5 distinct phases of growth every successful founder must follow to take their business from concept to world domination.

So guess what everybody, we are interviewing a while out.

A very prominent business author we all know and love. He is the founder of personal unsecured loans for bad credit a company called Fund That Flip.

And Matt has been a friend and a colleague of mine since he asked me to join the Fund That Flip board of advisors back in 2015 when he unsecured personal loans rates started the company. And from the inside, see the phenomenal growth of his company over the past five personal loan no credit history years. And during the first half of the episode, Matt talks all about how he conceived of the company, how he built it, and how he grew it. So make sure you listen for the second half of this discussion where Matt walks through his five stages of growth and make sure you start employing it in your business today. Now if you want more information about Matt, about Fund That Flip, or about anything else we talk about on the show, please check out our show notes at biggerpockets. Carol Scott:Matt, we are best unsecured loan rates so excited you are here today. We have so been looking forward to chatting with you more about Fund That Flip.

Matt Rodak:Yeah, so we are a short term lender that specializes in bridge loans, hard money loans, private money loans, depending on how you want to define it specifically focused on one to four family properties with a nationwide aspiration and currently about in 19 States, primarily on the East Coast of the United States.

So we provide six to 18 month term loans for people that are flipping houses. So people that are doing ground up best unsecured loan rates construction, people that are buying homes, fixing them up, and then tenanting them to build out the rental portfolio. So we really specialize in providing that bridge financing to get the stabilization.

So we work with publicly traded REIT, we work with an insurance company, we work with some hedge funds. And the reason for that really is for our borrowers through this one point of contact on that flip, you get access to a very diverse and broad array of capital. So if you paper really well and your deals right down the fairway, we can get you into the REIT money which is going to be the best program for that.

What led you down the path to starting this company?

Matt Rodak:Yeah, so my story goes all the way back to high school actually.

So I had a small landscaping business in high school and for whatever reason, I ended up doing a lot of landscaping work for people like you guys, real estate investor. So at a relatively young age, I got this really cool experience.

So got to see the inside of these homes and even the outside of the homes and over time watched how they went from this property that was really depressing the neighborhood and bringing down the value of the other homes, turn into one of the nicer homes on the blocks. I ended up taking a corporate job with a large fortune 500 company, an insurance company that also insured other fortune 500 companies. They had a middle market group that was a step down from fortune 500 companies and I got started with them as what was called a production underwriter. So it was one part business development, and one part looking at risk and underwriting risk and pricing risk and structuring relatively complex insurance programs. This company was interesting because they were mostly engineers.

So their whole thesis was engineer risk out of loss and help customers save money and help the business save money. But what that resulted in was not a lot of business people in the business. And because of that, I think I figured out what we had and we had a really good product and I became really good at selling it. So within, I think, 18 months of starting that job, I was leading the company on a global basis, a new business production enough, so that I got the attention of some of the people that were running the company and they called me up and asked me two questions. And two, do you think you could teach the rest of the company how to do that? So had an opportunity at a pretty young age to move out to Rhode Island, which is where the company was headquartered and worked very closely with the senior executives of that middle market company and institutionalize the sales and marketing function.

So that was my job built CRM systems, we built training, we built new websites, I got to really get my hands dirty, in the technology world, really as an SME and business expert. And I like to say it was my mini MBA where I learned a ton. So I started putting a plan in place to exit corporate America.

And through that experience, I learned of the hard money lending space or the private money lending space. He had, no joke, an eight page paper application without an email address to send it to only a fax number. This whole industry around lending money to people that are investing in real estate is broken. At the same time and separate from all this, I was doing peer-to-peer investing on, again, pretty early to the game of Prosper and Lending Clubs. So these were new ideas, again, credit was tight, consumer credit was tight. You saw the opportunity and then at the same time you saw Prosper and Lending Club which were a couple of platforms that I was actually on at the time as well, funny enough.

And you said, "Hey, I can marry these opportunities. And Gino is doing these secured loans where the risk is really low, but getting these ridiculous rates, I can marry the two and actually create a company.


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So this gave me the ability to be around and be in the game, but not have to be in the minutiae.

I could partner with people like yourself, that are really good at that stuff and play a different part in the ecosystem, if you will.

And I love hearing all of this evolution of not only the beginning of the company, but all of the things that you were doing that led up to it. Clearly, you had some significant leadership experience in marketing and sales and finance and technology all put together into one, along with this being in this hard money lending space and wanting to stay in the real estate space. And I want to hear more and more about that evolution. I would like to set the online loans instant approval stage even further though, because I think this is a really important thing for anybody who owns a business.

So in Fund That Flip, it sounds like you essentially have really two different customer bases that you have this value proposition for, like you mentioned. You have the real estate investors and then you have these entrepreneurial capital investors. So what did you do to structure your business so that you could really effectively meet the needs of those very different two parties? I had a conversation with a guy that finally really helped this click for me. Our customer is the real estate operator, the sponsor, the borrower, whatever name you want to ascribe to them. That said, in how we think about it internally as our investors on our platform are certainly customers. We have customer service professionals there, we spend a lot of money and time on marketing and everything else. But internally we almost think of them more as suppliers. So the capital side of our business is almost thought of the supply side, and our borrowers are thought of as our customer side. But in theory, the volume is more important than good deals because in theory, you put a million deals out there, your lenders find the good ones and they pick and choose, and then they fund those deals. If I submit a deal to you, are you even going to look at that deal before you throw it out to the marketplace or are you just going to pass it through? What do you foresee or what do you see as your role as the marketplace owner of ensuring that the deals that go out to lenders in the market are reasonable deals. So we see a lot of inbound, our marketing is doing a good job of bringing leads into us. We also fund everything before we take it out to the crowd.

But what then is the benefit to the company, if you can go out and borrow money from a hedge fund, or REIT, or someplace else, and you can bring in a lot of capital, what is the benefit to you to then go and replenish that capital from the marketplace lenders?